Episode Thumbnail
Episode 22  |  58:11 min

S2:EP22 - Abhinav Kapur, Turning Data into Dollars

Episode 22  |  58:11 min  |  04.16.2021

S2:EP22 - Abhinav Kapur, Turning Data into Dollars

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This is a podcast episode titled, S2:EP22 - Abhinav Kapur, Turning Data into Dollars. The summary for this episode is: <p>In this episode I interview Abhinav Kapur, CEO &amp; Founder of Bikky, an omni-channel CRM system for restaurants. </p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9);">Abhinav is dedicated to helping restaurants build deeper, more authentic customer relationships at a time when their business is rapidly shifting beyond the traditional four walls. By aggregating data across channels (in-store, delivery, loyalty, etc.), his system unlocks a unified view of the guest, as well as the ability to run completely automated, data-driven marketing campaigns.</span></p><p><br></p><p>In the next 60 minutes, we dive into new technologies restaurants should be leveraging, how to turn data into dollars and his inspiration behind Bikky. </p>
Takeaway 1 | 00:22 MIN
Turning Data Into Dollars
Takeaway 2 | 01:57 MIN
Automating Customer Journeys
Takeaway 3 | 01:00 MIN
Discount Flows that Work
Takeaway 4 | 01:15 MIN
Mad Men to Moneyball
Takeaway 5 | 00:34 MIN
Knowing your Customers
Takeaway 6 | 01:18 MIN
Collecting Customer Information

In this episode, I interview Abhinav Kapur, CEO & Founder of Bikky, an omni-channel CRM system for restaurants.


Abhinav is dedicated to helping restaurants build deeper, more authentic customer relationships at a time when their business is rapidly shifting beyond the traditional four walls. By aggregating data across channels (in-store, delivery, loyalty, etc.), his system unlocks a unified view of the guest, as well as the ability to run completely automated, data-driven marketing campaigns.


In the next 60 minutes, we dive into new technologies restaurants should be leveraging, how to turn data into dollars and his inspiration behind Bikky.


For any restauranteur listening, this episode is packed with all the information and knowledge you will need when making data driven decisions for your business.


Enjoy!

Guest Thumbnail
Abhinav Kapur
CEO & Founder of Bikky
He is the CEO & Founder of Bikky, an omni-channel CRM system for restaurants; who is dedicated to helping restaurants build deeper, more authentic customer relationships at a time when their business is rapidly shifting beyond the traditional four walls.
LinkedIn

Brett Linkletter: In this episode, I interview Abhinav Kapur, who's the CEO and founder of Bikky, which is an omnichannel CRM for restaurants. We had an incredible conversation, guys. We talked about a number of different interesting things in regards to new technologies that restaurants should be using to grow their business, we talk about how using Bikky they turn data into dollars. We talk about why Abhinav got in the restaurant business to start with using this new software product of his that they built. The inspiration actually came about when Abhinav was actually doing delivery orders for his mother- in- law's restaurant. They got a really cool story and they're expanding very quickly. And honestly, at the end of the day, you guys have to listen to this episode. There's just so much good information that I think a lot of restaurateurs need to be thinking about from a data perspective. There's so much to do with tracking customers across platforms that so many restaurants seem to forget about. And so without further ado, let's dive right in. Hi, my name is Brett Linkletter, CEO and founder of Misfit Media, the best damn restaurant marketing agency on the planet. Here at Misfit, we help restaurant owners grow and scale their business through strategic online marketing practices. Right now, you're listening to our podcast, Restaurant Misfits, where we'll discuss all things related to restaurant marketing, management, and everything else in between growing a restaurant business. This podcast is also brought to you in collaboration with Total Food Service. For over 30 years, Total Food Service has provided the restaurant and food service industry with exclusive interviews, to the latest news on products, trends, associations and events. You can sign up for a free monthly subscription by visiting totalfood. com today. And from all the misfits over here, we hope you enjoy the show. Cheers. Offer convenient and secure contactless pay at the table with Up n' go. Even text guests their check, so they can pay before picking up to go orders. Guests pay quicker. Tables turn sooner. Staff is more efficient. Up n' go supports NCR, Aloha, and Micros. Abhinav, how are you doing?

Abhinav Kapur: Good, man. How are you? Long time no see.

Brett Linkletter: I know. Long time no see. Man, we've been good. Crazy last 12 months though I would say. Right? How are things for you guys? It's been interesting. I keep hearing about you guys. And so obviously, I wanted to chat. What's new with Bikky?

Abhinav Kapur: Either we're doing something very right or something very wrong.

Brett Linkletter: Apparently.

Abhinav Kapur: No, things have been good. I mean, I always say to my family, if there is any silver lining to COVID, it's that it's been good for our business. And I say that specifically because from the beginning, we've been talking about how restaurants can leverage data, third party, first party, point of sale, reservations, everything, pretty much every guest facing channel. And when the business goes 100% digital overnight and a switch gets flicked, necessarily something that we've been talking about for two years prior becomes relevant. We've been able to help a lot of restaurants during the last 12 months, during a tough time, which has been, I would say just being mission driven and being principled and playing a role, I'm not going to say it's a saving role, but we play a role in helping them. And so it's been good from that standpoint.

Brett Linkletter: And I think that's awesome, man. I think what I always tell people in business in general is if you can make money, solve a major problem and help people, that's winning, that's winning in business. Right? That's it, so that's awesome, man. For anyone though who's just learning about you and Bikky for the first time, what do you guys do exactly at Bikky? What is the service you guys provide for restaurants?

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, the high level is we are essentially a data and marketing platform for restaurants. Now, that sounds kind of generic. But what's special about us is we have the ability to aggregate customer data across every single channel or guest order. That's point of sale, reservations, loyalty, online ordering, third party ordering, kiosk. We're able to pull all the data together into one system of record for your customer data, so that you are mapping the entire guest footprint. And because restaurants won't just pay for a database, the purpose of that data is really to help restaurants build their own targeted data driven marketing funnels because that's what third party platforms are doing.

Brett Linkletter: Absolutely.

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah. And so our mission, what we say at Bikky is to help restaurants build thriving, independent businesses in the era of digital hospitality, thriving and independent because the reason I got in this business is because my mother- in- law owns a restaurant. And it's a true immigrant story. She didn't have a background in hospitality, came here, built a two star New York Times rated restaurant over a 20 year period, and she did it by herself. She did it as an independent owner operator.

Brett Linkletter: Wow.

Abhinav Kapur: And we want to restore restaurants to that place in the era of digital hospitality because the business is digitizing, it is fundamentally a new era. Restaurants do feel like their businesses are being taken away from them by larger platforms. And what we want to do is give them the data and tools to regain control of the guest relationship and gauge their customers proactively, similar to how third parties are. And more importantly, again, transact and engage with guests in this new era of digital hospitality.

Brett Linkletter: 100%. That's a great why, man. I mean, I think so many people, they don't even know what they're doing or why they're doing it. You guys got a really damn good why.

Abhinav Kapur: I always say, too, honestly, my mother- in- law's one of the strongest people that I know, right? Like I said, she came here in the late'70s, didn't know the language, didn't know the culture, had various odd jobs, was a bank teller, gas station attendant, grocery store cashier, hotel guest clerk, travel agent. And again, in the early 2000s, she looked around and she was like, " There are no good fine dining Indian food in New York City aside from Danny Meyer's Tabla, and she wanted to change that. And again, like I said, over a 20 year period, just touching tables, knowing her guests' names, their faces, what they eat, what they drink. You can see how that's super relevant now during COVID, right?

Brett Linkletter: Totally.

Abhinav Kapur: You can't do all that stuff, so.

Brett Linkletter: I feel like in general, there's not enough fine dining Indian restaurants.

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah. I think their secret weapon was most of the time you're just ordering quick takeout, like chicken tikka masala, or whatever, some of the basics. And what they've done is, one, they've elevated some of those more traditional dishes, they've also brought in some South Indian influences. They do a couple non standard things like lamb chops, and they have a wine list. They have actually a sommelier on staff to actually pair Indian food and wine.

Brett Linkletter: Wow.

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah. So again, they leaned in hard into this idea of Indian food can be white tablecloth food, fine dining.

Brett Linkletter: I love that.

Abhinav Kapur: Her business went 30% delivery in the last couple of years.

Brett Linkletter: Insane.

Abhinav Kapur: So that's the shift that we're trying to help them navigate.

Brett Linkletter: And you guys are based in New York. Right?

Abhinav Kapur: We are. I mean, our team is remote, but I'm in Queens, a couple of people in Brooklyn, and then a few abroad, one person in DC.

Brett Linkletter: Got it. So we spoke, what was it, about a year and a half ago, I remember. Was that kind of right as you guys were kind of picking up some steam and volume, right? I remember when we first spoke, it was just kind of getting going.

Abhinav Kapur: It was late 2019 I think, yeah, late 2019. We had spent a lot of the time in 2019 just... The thing is, again, when I first started the business, and I would say to restaurants, " I'm going to aggregate all your customer data," they'd be like, " I don't care about data. Help me do more deliveries." And granted, this is a very New York centered view because that's where we're based, but I remember a lot of restaurants just not really caring about the data. And that's not a knock, that's just it wasn't a focus and the timing wasn't right. But we did find a handful of restaurants that did, and we spent a lot of 2019 just iterating our product with then. And then towards the end of 2019 was when you and I connected, which was like when we built V one of the product, essentially.

Brett Linkletter: I mean, here's the thing. I remember when you first mentioned to me. It's funny because you mentioned that restaurants seem like they don't really care. Man, I deal with the same shit all the time. There's some kind of disconnect between a lot of restaurateurs and embracing data, embracing technology. And I think a silver lining to COVID, like you just mentioned, is it made people understand that I need this. It made them realize, damn, maybe I should care. Right?

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, honestly. And it's not to knock our customers, but it's just like, again, I go back to my mother- in- law, I think about all the shit she's dealing with on a daily basis. She's managing employees. She's talking to her landlord. A chef just called out, she has to step into the kitchen. On top of that, she has to go touch tables. On top of that, she has to make sure delivery orders are packed appropriately. On top of that, she's managing shifts and tip credit hours because of labor laws. And so there are so many things in the mind of a restaurant operator. I can't fault them for being like, one more thing to deal with, right?

Brett Linkletter: Totally.

Abhinav Kapur: I think what's been such a key part of our business is just keeping it simple and being like, " We turn data into dollars." That's it. That's all we do. We try to make it simple for you, but it's not just about the data, it's about knowing who your guests are, understanding, getting back to that idea of touching tables in a digital world, and more importantly, using that to drive more frequent business through your best channels, whether that's in store or online.

Brett Linkletter: Yeah. So let's talk about that though because turning data into dollars, I think a lot of people probably just heard that and said, " What the hell's he talking about?" So let's talk about how you guys actually do that. Let's talk about how restaurants can use Bikky to do that.

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah. We've got a few things. We've got a few out of the box things and a couple more advanced things. The out of the box ones that we do is, I remember when I started the business, our early customers would be like, " I've never seen my data this way before. And what do I do with it?" Right?

Brett Linkletter: Yep.

Abhinav Kapur: Very fair question. The second thing I would hear is like, " I want to be like Sweetgreen." And I'm like, " Do you guys know what that means? Or do you just Sweetgreen raising money, have a lot of press?" And so what I did was I actually downloaded Sweetgreen's app. And I said, " All right. What do they do that's so special?" And I noticed two things. One is their approach to restaurant marketing is the opposite to what most restaurants do. Sweetgreen does not discount. Everything is story based, here's who we are, our brand, our values, the farmer whose seeds are now in your salad. The second thing that they did was as a new user, they put me through a very structured onboarding email sequence, meaning day one, I got three emails in the first 10 days, and an email every five days after that until day 40, basically. And so what we went back to our customers and said was like, " If you want to be like Sweetgreen, how about, because Bikky gets all of your customer data, we can automatically recognize when a new customer is truly a new customer, we can automate your welcome flow across all your channels. You can have a separate one for in store customers, a separate one for delivery customers." But it's basically, I always think of the Ronco. Do you remember this infomercial, the Ronco Showtime Oven? I used to see this growing up when I was a kid.

Brett Linkletter: I'm not sure, actually.

Abhinav Kapur: It was a guy with a fancy oven. And he would put a piece of meat in, and he'd be like, " You set it," and then he'd point to the audience and they'd be like, " And forget it." And so I always think about our approach to marketing is how can we make this as automated and set it and forget it as possible? So the ways in which we do that are this onboarding flow, which again, every restaurant has a story to tell. Every restaurant has something special about them, a reason why a guest chooses to dine with them. And so what we do is we automate. We get a template, and we help them automate how they tell that story.

Brett Linkletter: Got it.

Abhinav Kapur: So whenever a new customer orders, a five email sequence, automated over 45 days, to give you a sense of impact, order frequency from new customers goes up by anywhere from 15% to 45% over the life of the flow.

Brett Linkletter: Wow. Oh my God.

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, so it's pretty dramatic. And we also do the same thing on the lapsed customer side. Most restaurants think about, " Oh, it's been 30 days. I miss you. Here's a discount." What we say is, " We get all your order data. Let's automate a story based lapse flow. And if someone does not order after the first five emails, then email six will be the discount." So instead of you just throwing money out there to everybody, let's try to win them back based on who you are and what your brand is. In terms of impact there, most restaurant marketing campaigns, email campaigns yield what we call 75 cents revenue per guest. What that means is you email 1, 000 people, you'll make 750 bucks net of discounts. Our lapse flow email campaigns are generating anywhere from$ 3. 50 to$5. 00 revenue per guest, so it's literally a crosstalk increase in the amount of revenue that you're seeing because you're not just spraying and praying, because you're not just launching discounts at folks.

Brett Linkletter: Wow.

Abhinav Kapur: You're winning them back based on your story, based on why you started your restaurant in the first place. So those are the crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: I love that, man. You know what's crazy? But here's what's interesting, and this is the whole reason I got in the restaurant industry. Before I did restaurants for our agency, I did all kind of e- commerce brands. And a brand's story and this automated welcome series of emails, this is just the standard shit.

Abhinav Kapur: Exactly.

Brett Linkletter: Right?

Abhinav Kapur: Exactly.

Brett Linkletter: But for the restaurants, it's like, " Whoa, amazing." So I think what you guys have done is great.

Abhinav Kapur: And it's email. It's money in the couch cushions. Everybody understands email.

Brett Linkletter: Yes.

Abhinav Kapur: We do some stuff with the data around paid social retargeting and custom audiences and all that stuff. But email is the easiest thing to grasp because we all get email every single day. We all know how to send an email. And we all understand the power of telling a story through email over a five email sequence over 50 days. crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: I love this, though, man because this is something, I literally before this interview today, I just was on a sales call with a restaurant concept with, I think they have seven locations.

Abhinav Kapur: Hook it up.

Brett Linkletter: And this guy I was speaking to was, I'm already thinking these are good ideas we can do here. The guy just took over as a marketing director for this brand, they got two different concepts. And we start talking, and he goes, " We got about 7, 000 emails, but I don't think we've ever used these emails in the last two years." I said, " Dude, I call emails uncashed checks." Right? They're sitting right there. It's a lot of information, a lot of detail. Those are already proven customers that have come to the restaurant, that have already paid. How can we monetize them more? Those are uncashed checks.

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah. Go ahead, and then I'll crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: But the big thing I want to say is it doesn't seem like restaurants in general care enough about email. And then the ones that do care, they're putting this just minimal effort forward creating a story around this, a welcome series. Why the hell not? This is amazing.

Abhinav Kapur: And we give you the template to do it. It's not like you have to figure it out on your own. We save a library of our partners and their campaign. And so when you onboard with us, we say to you, " Cool. How do you think about your brand? Who are your peers in the space? Who do you compare yourself to?" And then we say, " Cool. These are three of the brands in our network that most closely align with what your vision is for your business. Here's what their drip campaigns look like." Day one, I'll just say, " Day one, message from the founder. Day five, highlight a menu item. Day nine, highlight your food philosophy. Day 14, another message from the founder." And the day one, day five, that's not the hard and fast rules. Every brand is different. Right? If you're fast casual, we have fast casual customers who are sending in the sequence every three days because lower average order value and higher frequency. We have casual dining customers that are sending every seven to eight days because their average check size is$ 45 to$ 50, and it's more of a weekend type crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: Just quickly on that message from the founder, I love that, by the way. And it's something that we encourage all our clients to do more is I don't know why the founder's hiding behind the restaurant sometimes. Get in front of your customers. People are excited about your restaurant. Connect with your guests. That's a great way to do it. I say people buy from other humans, not brands. Right? You're connecting with your customers on the most personal level possible.

Abhinav Kapur: That's exactly right.

Brett Linkletter: God damn.

Abhinav Kapur: That's right, yeah. Tell a story. Every restaurant has a story, so we just say, " Tell your story." That's it.

Brett Linkletter: 100%. How big is your guys' team now, by the way?

Abhinav Kapur: It's pretty small still. We're four full time, and then a few contractors. But we're growing, which is great, and we're thankful for that. Again, we wouldn't be doing it without the support of our restaurant partners, so.

Brett Linkletter: 100%. And how many restaurants are you guys serving at this point?

Abhinav Kapur: We are with around 50 restaurants across 250 locations.

Brett Linkletter: Wow.

Abhinav Kapur: So that ranges everything from a 35 location frozen yogurt brand to a two location traditional New York deli, so it ranges the gamut.

Brett Linkletter: Do you feel like you have any kind of preference on the bigger versus smaller brands? I mean, look, bigger brands means more locations and obviously more revenue for the business. But do you find it easier or harder to work with either kind of brand, any kind of specific niche that you're really going after?

Abhinav Kapur: The biggest thing, and you called it out a little bit earlier, the biggest thing is having a marketing person or an agency partner because again, our whole philosophy is, and I stole this from another podcast, and now I'm going to put it on yours, but we say that this world is going from Mad Men to Moneyball. Mad Men is this big, generic, promotional, top of funnel advertising, which is if restaurants do advertising, that's what they do, an email blast to their list, a post on Instagram. What the third parties are doing is playing Moneyball. They're leveraging all the data across their apps to build these targeted marketing funnels, engaging customers across email, push notifications, text, social. And so what we say at Bikky is, " We give you the tools to play Moneyball." We give you the data and we give you the tools to play Moneyball.

Brett Linkletter: I love that.

Abhinav Kapur: Thank you, but in order to actually do that properly, you need a marketing person or an agency that's going to own the product, that's going to own the process, that's going to build the copy, that's going to invest the time to do it.

Brett Linkletter: To do it, yeah.

Abhinav Kapur: One of the things that we do with our product is, you can literally send an email, and a day later, we'll tell you how much revenue the email generated. We do a seven day attribution window, so you can send an email, and over the next seven days, we'll tell you everybody who received that email, whether or not they converted, and how much they spent.

Brett Linkletter: That's bad ass.

Abhinav Kapur: Right.

Brett Linkletter: Wait. Let's stop right there because I know that's another a- ha moment. Restaurants are thinking, " What the hell is this guy talking about?"

Abhinav Kapur: I'm glad you're here to slow me down. I get too excited about this stuff.

Brett Linkletter: No, but I'm glad. The thing is, look, I do this same stuff because we're both so deep into the data world, and it's such second nature to us. But oftentimes, all our customer base is like, " Data is still such a foreign thing." So let's talk about real quick how that works. So you send an email, a customer is going to receive that email with their specific email. You can track where they're now ordering on any platform?

Abhinav Kapur: Right. Because we get the customer data right across point of sale, reservations, first party ordering, loyalty. We basically say, " Cool. These 10,000 people received this email yesterday." In the next three days, which of those email addresses showed up in our system again in that three day window? Where did they order from? What channel, what location, and how much did they spend?

Brett Linkletter: Insane.

Abhinav Kapur: And so we can actually tie the revenue back to the email.

Brett Linkletter: Insane. So yeah, you guys, man, this is amazing. So you guys-

Abhinav Kapur: We have partners who are like, before, again, they were just blasting emails. And now they're literally, this is an advanced use case, but again, going back to why you need a point person on the marketing side, the marketer now at one of our partners, she is testing which day of the week is the best day to email? Which time of day is the best time to email? What copy, what subject line works? What picture do I show? If I segment these customers and I send them burgers and I send these customers pictures of fries, who actually converts better? And what do they respond with? And so it's crazy stuff. And again, they went from sending an email once a week, posting stuff on Instagram, to within six months, they are again being super targeted, super data driven, iterating fast.

Brett Linkletter: Totally.

Abhinav Kapur: It's not like these things are difficult. It's just a function of time. And do you have somebody honing it?

Brett Linkletter: Does it just blow your clients' mind once they have the access to this data, and they see, what was life like before this? It's like, " What the hell were we doing?"

Abhinav Kapur: I'll give you a perfect example. One of the things we have in the product is a segmentation builder. And what that means is, and segmentation sounds fancy, but I'll boil it down to be simple. Most restaurants know, well, every restaurant knows that their regulars are the lifeblood of their business. How many restaurants do you think can actually truly identify which customer, which of the guests that come on average once or twice a month through all their data?

Brett Linkletter: I don't know. Probably none.

Abhinav Kapur: What if you could build a segment literally within 30 seconds, and it would spit out an email list of every single customer that orders from you on average at least once a month? And you knew that these were your ride or dies, your regulars. That's the type of stuff that we do. We take all this data because we understand, again, going back to my mother- in- law being an operator, we understand we need to boil this down and make it simple, and distill it down into the true concepts that matter for this industry. Who are my regulars? Who's someone that used to come every month and has not come within the last two months?

Brett Linkletter: 100%.

Abhinav Kapur: Who's somebody who spent over$1, 000 with me lifetime, and hasn't been back in six months? Those are the types of things, again, understanding these pockets of customers and then being able to surface that data immediately. And then just saying, " Cool. I'm just going to email them." It doesn't have to be a fancy email. It's just, " Hey, it's Joe's Pizza. We haven't seen you in a bit. And we're back. We hope that you're doing well during this pandemic." Done. Right?

Brett Linkletter: Wow.

Abhinav Kapur: And that's found money, like you were saying.

Brett Linkletter: Totally. So I like what you mentioned though also about, okay, so for you guys, you said it's better to work with a restaurant that has an agency partner, which I actually was just talking to our sales team about this because I think what's going on, and we've noticed on our side, on the agency side, because obviously, we're an agency, right?

Abhinav Kapur: Right.

Brett Linkletter: We're an agency. We want to be a marketing partner for restaurants. That's what we do. Now, what we've noticed though quite a bit, and this is not just in the restaurant space, but I think this is happening all over the place, is you brought up an interesting point that using your product, you've got to have someone that runs it, that utilizes it, right? And there's kind of this merging of you've got to have the service end, but you also want to have the tools and technology. And so if we look at pure SAS, we have the amazing product that we can use to utilize and do all these great things. And on the service side, some of these service people though, they don't understand the technology. And so they're limited. Maybe they have a great service arm, but they're lacking in that product. It's kind of the merging of the two together is where we get the perfect fit for success. You know what I mean?

Abhinav Kapur: For sure. And this is what bigger brands do. Again, I'm beating the drum here, but think about all the things I said about my mother- in- law in terms of what she has to be an expert at and in terms of running her own restaurant. Again, it comes down to how are you spending your time? Where are you focusing? And if you think that this is something that can move the needle for you.

Brett Linkletter: Totally.

Abhinav Kapur: Now, part and parcel of our product is being able to tie marketing initiatives to revenue because we fundamentally believe that if you're a restaurant, so one of the things I really hate and dislike about the characterization of our industry is, they're cheap. They're not sophisticated. It's not that we're not sophisticated. It's they're like my mother- in- law. They have more important things to do. There are more burning, urgent fires than they as a single owner operator need to put out.

Brett Linkletter: 100%.

Abhinav Kapur: Which is why there are marketing agencies and partners and tools to help them do things as they focus their attention on something else. Oh, they're cheap. I hate that as well. They're not cheap, they just know how to spend their money. And they only put their money into things that they can demonstratively see drive value.

Brett Linkletter: 100%.

Abhinav Kapur: That's why we tie that value back into our product and we say, " If you're sending an email, I want you to know how much revenue it's going to generate," because I want you to feel like you're committing to us, putting your trust in us, giving us your customer data. And it's our responsibility to show that we can take that data and turn it into dollars that actually make an impact on your business.

Brett Linkletter: 100%.

Abhinav Kapur: Even some of the marketing service partners we work with, they don't have that mentality. They're there, and they think they're helping, but also, they don't ultimately know. And so we've just got to be that source of truth for customer data and ultimately marketing tactics as well.

Brett Linkletter: 100%. I love that. And so you guys, from just looking at your guys' site and seeing what you guys do, obviously you're integrating to all these different platforms so you can track the customer on what they're doing. I ordered on Uber Eats. Hey, I came in the restaurant. I ordered online, which is amazing. I'm kind of curious. Do you have any favorite platforms that you like for restaurants, in particular? Or is it all the same to you guys? Any recommendations? Think about this.

Abhinav Kapur: It depends on the restaurant honestly, yeah.

Brett Linkletter: What if someone's starting a restaurant, opening a new location, they have zero tech stack. They're like, " What the hell do I do?"

Abhinav Kapur: Anything I say will be biased based on what we currently integrate with. But I would say for all in ordering there a ton of really great providers out there for smaller restaurants, anywhere from one to five to 10 locations. We work with the team at Bbot very closely, I don't know if you know Steve from Bbot but he's great, we work with them very closely.

Brett Linkletter: I know about them, yeah.

Abhinav Kapur: We work with the team at BentoBox closely as well, we work with the team at ChowNow also, and so, again, I think it really depends, there's a matrix, right? You have to think about what's important to you when it comes to setting up something like this. You can't just go for something out of the box, it has to fit your idea of what you want for your restaurant. My in- law's restaurant is on BentoBox because I feel like BentoBox has the best experience and does the best job showcasing what an online ordering website would look like for a fine dining Indian restaurant.

Brett Linkletter: Got it.

Abhinav Kapur: If I care more about expediency and efficiency and I just want people to order very quickly and I have a small menu, maybe I'd go for something like ChowNow, because to my knowledge at this point they don't support pictures for online ordering and maybe that's not necessarily the biggest deal, again, if I have a small menu. If I have a laundry list of things that people want to go through, I might need pictures, right? But if not and I only have a handful of menu items or limited skews, then ChowNow is the easiest way to probably get started.

Brett Linkletter: Got it.

Abhinav Kapur: If I have a casual dining restaurant and I want a unified experience across in store contactless payment and online ordering, I would look at something like Bbot, because Bbot is that one platform that will maintain the integrity of customer data across those two different channels, and will also plug in nicely with us where we can again leverage all that data to drive more business across the online and in store channel, so there's a ton of different considerations, but, yeah.

Brett Linkletter: I know, because we've had some mutual clients, that I don't know why they didn't tell me that they were using you guys, because I was like, guys, they're doing some cool shit, that would have helped us a lot.

Abhinav Kapur: Well, from here on out, from here moving forward.

Brett Linkletter: Now we know, I'm like, yeah-

Abhinav Kapur: crosstalk set the record straight, so.

Brett Linkletter: Actually, I spoke to I think they were a former client of yours, I don't want to mention their name, but I spoke to someone, he said, " We had this kind of data wizard that helps us pull emails from third party." I'm like, what's with this mysterious wizard? Just tell me what it is you're using. " Well, it's like this thing," I'm like, spill the beans, what are you talking about? They're like, " All right, it's a company called Bikky." I'm like, what the hell? I spoke to this guy. They were being so secretive about it, they were dancing around your guys' name and I'm like, dude, just tell me.

Abhinav Kapur: From our perspective we're two sides of the same coin, right? We bring the data and the tools and your team helps with the creative, with the content, with the ideas and the iteration to actually make it all successful, crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: Totally, but I thought it was just so funny, it was like they didn't want to share this little hidden secret that they had, and I'm like, dude, it's hilarious. Up n' go pay at the table will save your staff tons of time splitting checks because it lets guests tap on what they just ordered to pay fairly in groups. Up n' go will also keep your payments secure, because it's a PCI certified, level one service provider. Now, for safe and convenient digital wallets including Apple Pay, Google Pay and Venmo alongside credit cards. Over two million restaurant guests across the country in over 1, 000 restaurants in nearly every state have benefited from Up n' go. Don't wait, visit upngo. com now and request a free demo. That's upngo. com, again, that's upngo. com. I'm kind of curious, where did the name come from by the way, Bikky?

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, it's a long story, and a source of internal debate, we're like do we change the name? So, it ties back to when we first started the business, we didn't start by building a product or aggregating data or anything like that. We started by actually doing deliveries in New York City for restaurants. So I was on a bike doing food delivery for my in- laws, I did some deliveries for the Johnny Rockets franchisee close by, did some deliveries for another Indian restaurant. Because I really wanted to get a flavor, I didn't know anything, right? My background is in finance, I worked on Wall Street for eight and a half years. And my in- laws are in the business, but having family in the business is very different than understanding the business itself.

Brett Linkletter: Totally.

Abhinav Kapur: So I just quit my job, starting doing deliveries for six, seven months and eventually it got to the point where I was like, I need to come up with a name for this thing, and someone was like, " What do I call you? It's you and a few people doing bike deliveries and we're paying you, what do we call you?" And I was like, well, I guess we're on bikes and if you want to summon us, you can say I'm just going to Bikky these deliveries to get them out of the door and deliver them to the customers.

Brett Linkletter: Interesting.

Abhinav Kapur: So that was it. So it's a play on bike and something that can be turned into a verb and it's unique and it's different and it's interesting.

Brett Linkletter: Just Bikky it.

Abhinav Kapur: Exactly, but it's one of those things where it's just like it doesn't really tie to anything that we do today, but I still like keeping it as a reminder of how deeply valued the partnership with our restaurant partners, how committed we are to serving them and in the early days we would literally get on bikes to get food from point A to point B for you because we believe that hospitality is paramount.

Brett Linkletter: But, hey, for me in general, when I hear a name, Bikky is intriguing I think. What the hell was Google before Google? You know what I mean? I don't know, not to knock this brand or put them on blast right now on the podcast, but-

Abhinav Kapur: It's so weird you're asking me, because I was like, I had a dream last night that we changed the name.

Brett Linkletter: No way.

Abhinav Kapur: crosstalk funny, I don't know what it was, but we were thinking about it, we were talking about it, so, anyways.

Brett Linkletter: Wow.

Abhinav Kapur: Not to say that we will, but my perception on name and brand is like it should either really help you or it can really hurt you.

Brett Linkletter: Totally.

Abhinav Kapur: Right now, ours thankfully doesn't hurt us but it doesn't really help us either. So we're not really leveraging appropriately.

Brett Linkletter: Yeah, but the thing is too, our company is named Misfit Media, right? Damn, what the hell is that? Misfit Media? It's got to be an agency, it has nothing to do with the restaurants but I wanted the name Misfit because I'm like, we do things differently and we're badass here, let's go.

Abhinav Kapur: I like that.

Brett Linkletter: You know?

Abhinav Kapur: I like that a lot, yeah.

Brett Linkletter: But then also, again, not to put this brand on blast, this online ordering platform, but there's this platform I came across that a few of our clients have used called GoParrot, have you used GoParrot?

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, we interviewed with them too, yeah.

Brett Linkletter: But I'm like, GoParrot? Come on. I don't know. I'm not a fan of the name. I don't want to put them on blast.

Abhinav Kapur: I mean, I'm not going to say anything, they're good people there, but I think the idea is, I think I looked at their website, and it's like order, eat, repeat. And so I guess it's the idea of a parrot imitating or mimicking and running back something that you say, and so that's the, I think crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: I think that's a stretch. I think that's a stretch, and, hey, I don't know the guys, maybe-

Abhinav Kapur: I feel like Bikky occupies potentially the same category, so.

Brett Linkletter: No, you guys are cool.

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah.

Brett Linkletter: So, and going back to, yes, if we're going to look at any silver lining of COVID, I think the silver lining to both of our businesses is really recognizing that online is a place that's really something we've got to utilize as a restaurant business. And more and more I think we were already moving in this direction of digital, but COVID just accelerated that, right? I mean, insane.

Abhinav Kapur: Yep.

Brett Linkletter: I had the CEO of Ordermark, you've heard of Ordermark obviously, right?

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah.

Brett Linkletter: We had him on the podcast and he said the exact same thing, he was like, " Yeah, we were doing well before, but since COVID, now, boom, it just skyrocketed everything." Because you recognize that digital is not going away, finally, you recognize that-

Abhinav Kapur: And crosstalk online too, the amazing thing is, so we have a couple of POS integrations and the amazing thing is that my team and I went out for dinner a few weeks ago and we sat down in a restaurant, I never would've thought, you hear about this in Asia but I never would've thought in the US we'd be paying with QR codes.

Brett Linkletter: Totally.

Abhinav Kapur: And I'm scanning a QR code on the table, I'm ordering, it's more convenient, and I can order whatever I want and then every time I check out, I have to leave a phone number or email address. And so there is more data now on in store customers than there ever has been before.

Brett Linkletter: Who's doing that?

Abhinav Kapur: Who powers that? Well, Square, Toast, Bbot, Roam, there are a ton of companies out there now that crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: But you're paying with a QR code with those platforms?

Abhinav Kapur: Well, you scan the QR code and the menu pops up and then you fill your basket and then you check out via your phone.

Brett Linkletter: Got it, okay, I've seen Bbot do that, yeah.

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, and Square, and so the restaurant we were at, Square powered it, and like I said, there's a phone number and email address attached to every order and again, now restaurants are able to map. Before, our business was smaller because we were focusing on delivery, online ordering, loyalty, that's typically, what, anywhere from 20% to 30% of the business and now we have customers who are swiping their cards and entering email addresses, phone numbers or checking out through contactless dining and we have some customers who we're collecting 60% to 70% of their customer data, right.

Brett Linkletter: It's amazing.

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, it's totally changed the ability now for restaurants to actually understand who these guests are. The analog equivalent is your GM or your maître d' recognizing a customer when they walk through the door and then intimately knowing who they are. And there's turnover in the industry, it's a tight labor market, so if that person leaves, you've lost what the guests thought was special about that restaurant. So what we try to do is, again, tap into the data and leverage it to sort of try to bulletproof that relationship and let crosstalk going forward, so.

Brett Linkletter: 100%. Yeah, no, I love that. I mean, it is really cool, and it does give us a huge leg up on the marketing side to understand what's going on. What about, do you guys have any way of tracking if someone just came in in general without putting their phone number and email crosstalk?

Abhinav Kapur: No, that's the one thing is we can pull in obviously anonymized credit card data and then we have a way to store, track those purchases and what happens is if a customer comes in, let's say it's Visa 1234, and you place five orders, swipe the same credit card and never give your contact info, on the sixth order if you swipe your card and give your email address or phone number, we'll say this is the same person and then now they finally gave us a piece of identifiable info. And so we'll just update your profile now with your contact info.

Brett Linkletter: Money.

Abhinav Kapur: So we still try to maintain crosstalk record, yeah. So, we had one partner, it's so cool, this is actually a really cool story. We had one partner in Florida who they were like, " Look, we just launched online ordering," and they were working with Lunchbox, which is another partner of ours, " We just launched online ordering with Lunchbox, how do I drive more business to that site?" And they have Toast for their POS. And one of the tools that we have in the product, it's automated texting.

Brett Linkletter: Got it.

Abhinav Kapur: So a phone number comes in, you can send a text asking for feedback and following up with the customer, and so what we had was we had a partner who we told them basically, train your team in store to ask a customer for their phone number for a receipt when they check out and tell them that if they enter their phone number they can get a text for 10% off their first online order. So the way it works is a guest walks up, they swipe their card, they enter their phone number, we pull in Visa 1234 with that phone number, we automatically text the customer and say, " Thank you so much, here's 10% off your first online order." And then when the customer orders online, the phone number they gave us typically is a cellphone, so it's going to be the same phone number across in store and online, and when they order online we say, " Great, this is the same customer," and we automatically update their customer profile in our system with their name, their phone number is the same, their email address now and their physical address, and then we automatically sync the email address into Mailchimp, where the restaurant can now email them on an ongoing basis.

Brett Linkletter: Wow.

Abhinav Kapur: So what we've done there is we've totally deanonymized someone who is Visa 1234, gotten their phone number, then gotten their email address, then we've made that email address actionable, and then again, you can launch an email and you can say, great, did this person purchase or not based on that crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: I love that.

Abhinav Kapur: And now we can track them across every in store credit card swipe or online order as well, so.

Brett Linkletter: So sweet. So awesome.

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, admittedly that's one of the more advanced tactics, but that's some of the stuff that you can start to do crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: When I come across a pizza brand that's been in business for 15 years, and maybe you come across similar situations, some of these pizza brands, because they've been doing delivery for years, right? They have 40, 000 phone numbers and they have no idea what they are and what they cover. Is that just the holy grail for you guys, if you can just come in and just grab those numbers?

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, I mean, that's the thing is because even one of the things we haven't talked about here is even if you have phone numbers and you don't have email addresses, one of the things you can do is, again, you can build a custom audience on Facebook with that data.

Brett Linkletter: Totally.

Abhinav Kapur: And so if you think about segmentation, right, you can segment and say, " Great, I have all these emails or all these phone numbers sitting in my POS system, let's actually slice and dice it and understand the behavior. Who are my top 10% of customers?" Well, you can figure that out through segmentation, you can push it to Facebook and retarget them and remarket to them to just think them for their loyalty or drive even more business with them. Similarly, who are the people who have only come in once but placed a massive order? Those are customers you want to win back, they spent over$ 100, they only ordered once in the last 12 months, is there a way to target them as well and win them back?

Brett Linkletter: 100%.

Abhinav Kapur: And so what we look for is a phone number, an email address, and then we just try to crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: Totally.

Abhinav Kapur: This is why we work with partners like you, who are like, these are all the really super interesting ways, because I'm not in the mind, I'm not as close to the actual marketing tactics. I have ideas of the onboarding flow and the lapse flow. But there's so many other cool things that you can do with it, yeah.

Brett Linkletter: Yeah, but the tool that you give these marketing teams, these tools, you're basically giving the marketers finally something that they can use to track success. I mean, it's godsend really.

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, Mad Men to Moneyball, that's what I say. I told you, that's what it's all about.

Brett Linkletter: Yeah. So what about for redeeming offers though, do you guys have your own redemption system? Or are you plugging into what they use?

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, we'll plug into whatever they use. Candidly, we don't do a good job of this right now where it's like putting in an offer code from a point of sale system and saying, " This person crosstalk an offer code," we don't do a great job of that and we have some partners through whom we do that manually right now.

Brett Linkletter: Yeah.

Abhinav Kapur: But these are all good things that we want to build into the product and it's on the roadmap, is to start segmentation and be like who are people who only redeem these three offer codes and never place another order? Cool, those are the discount hunters and now I know that when I send a discount out, I only have to talk to them really.

Brett Linkletter: 100%.

Abhinav Kapur: So, crosstalk, we don't do a good job of that but, yeah.

Brett Linkletter: Or avoid them altogether because we want don't want them.

Abhinav Kapur: Right, yeah.

Brett Linkletter: You know?

Abhinav Kapur: Exactly, yeah.

Brett Linkletter: So, what are some things, obviously we're talking a lot about technology, a lot about the data, a lot about leveraging this data to bring people back. As far as new acquisition goes, when you guys are looking at your product and what you're able to do, is there any kind of new acquisition stuff to it too? I know you mentioned a custom audience on Facebook, would that be-

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, I mean, the best stuff that we do is definitely centered around we always like to bill ourselves as the best way for restaurants to understand, engage and retain their guests. New guest acquisition, we're starting to test a couple of things, although it's not net new guests. The best way we've seen net new guest acquisition happen is through lookalike audiences, so you can segment your customers, who are my best customers? Push that to Facebook and have Facebook create crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: So, one more time on that, because I know what you're talking about but I think a lot of our guests maybe don't.

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah.

Brett Linkletter: Talk to us about lookalike audiences, exactly what that is, so for someone who's hearing that and thinking, again, what the hell's he talking about?

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, so basically you can identify who your best customers are, who are the people that come in once a month, and you can upload that into Facebook and tell Facebook to target people that look like that group of people. So this is a way to reach brand new guests who look like your already best customers. And so that's crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: Totally. The thing I like about this strategy though too is it's one of those things where a lot of, again, pizza concepts have these massive phone lists and, " Yeah, I have this phone list, but I can't just text them, I don't have their permission." Okay, fine, so plug them into Facebook, yeah, plug them into Facebook, it'll match those phone numbers to user profiles on Facebook of which now you can run an ad to them. Genius, boom. Or create a custom audience.

Abhinav Kapur: And something cool we've seen during COVID is we've helped partners who similarly, the business goes entirely digital, entirely online ordering and delivery, so let's take that pizza shop example. They've got 40,000 phone numbers sitting in that POS, these are all in store orders, you can use that to drive people to your online ordering site, right? Because, again, it's your customer data and you can use that to drive people through something like Facebook where you load it in as a custom audience. Similarly, one of the things we're helping our partners do now is the opposite, which is we've just gone through this period over the last 12 months where the only way they were really serving their guests is through online ordering. They generate a ton of data and now they're like, " Great, indoor dining restrictions are coming down, how do I get all of these people and drive them in store now?" And so, again, the thing that I love about our business is we don't have our own channel, I don't have an online ordering platform, I don't have a point of sale system, I don't have a reservation system. All I care about is the data and helping restaurants leverage that data for whatever their business purpose is, whatever they feel like is the best channel for them to drive customers through.

Brett Linkletter: Totally.

Abhinav Kapur: crosstalk the ability to take online ordering customers, ChowNow, BentoBox, Bbot customers, and saying to those people, " It's been 12 months, we want to welcome you back in store," and to retarget them through email and social and then being able to have a point of sale integration that can actually measure how effectively that's working.

Brett Linkletter: That's huge.

Abhinav Kapur: That's what perfectly sets us up for-

Brett Linkletter: Talk to me about the integrations for you guys, was that easy to do, was that a pain in the ass? Because I hear horror stories from online platforms and they're like, " Dude, I've been trying to integrate into Toast for three years," I'm like, I don't know how that works, but sure.

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah. The good thing is, one good thing about our business, is we're not pushing anything to Toast, we're only pulling.

Brett Linkletter: Okay.

Abhinav Kapur: And so that simplifies a lot of it on the integration side.

Brett Linkletter: Okay, that makes sense. So it's not a deep integration, it's just pulling the data?

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, exactly. And so as I said earlier, we're a pretty small and scrappy team and so we do in terms of integrations, yes, we have API integrations with some partners, so across point of sale and online ordering. Sometimes we have an integration where you can just load in the CSV data, we have an ops team abroad and they're downloading CSV files from different POSs and we have a generic CSV upload like Mailchimp does when you load in email contacts. And we do that. And for some we're just scraping email order confirmations, an email order confirmation from my ChowNow site just came in, that pushes to us, we scrape that order confirmation and we put that data in our system.

Brett Linkletter: Totally.

Abhinav Kapur: So we have over 30 integrations now across all different parts of the tech stack.

Brett Linkletter: Amazing. I've always thought why would any point of sale or online platform be so secretive with an integration? Why would you not? Why wouldn't you just embrace the data? Let's just share this data because we're all going to help each other, that's the big benefit to this, right?

Abhinav Kapur: Right, well, it's sort of like the idea we talked about where it's like you need a marketer to focus. This is my belief with technology in general. You need a marketer to focus on making this data actionable and making it and being successful in terms of driving revenue. I believe the same thing with technology. We are a marketing and CRM partner for restaurants, and we are focused on that, and that is all we focus on, and that's why I bet on us to be the best at it over a point of sale company, right? It's just because this is all we do, this is all we care about.

Brett Linkletter: Specialization is the name of the game.

Abhinav Kapur: This is our live or die, we live or die based on the success of this one thing.

Brett Linkletter: Totally. And that's why when I was a marketer I used to do freaking sunglass companies, fitness studios, restaurants, bikini brands, whatever you thought of, you could name it. We had this joke here at Misfit that we'll do anything for you, hey, you want us to move your fridge, we got you. It was insane. But we were barely making any money, the moment we decided to focus on just restaurants, that was it, that's when we grew. So specialization is the name of the game, man, I'm all for that. So, let's switch the script to you, more about you, how do you get better? What do you do, do you read certain kinds of books, are you a fan of certain podcasts? How do you become a better CEO in general?

Abhinav Kapur: The biggest thing has been talking to other CEOs that are further down the line than me. That's honestly been the biggest thing.

Brett Linkletter: I would agree.

Abhinav Kapur: And I feel like this is true in any industry, you talk to your peers, you talk to people that are in the trenches with you. You talk to people that are maybe a little bit further ahead of you that you would consider your mentors. I have a friend, last night, so we're currently fundraising right now for our company and I have a friend who he built a POS company and he sold it and he's on his third company now, and at 11:30 at night I just emailed him and I was like, " Are you up?" And he's like, " Sure, what's up?" And we talked until 1:00 in the morning about fundraising and hiring and culture and building culture at a company. All of these things that are so important, so foundational. I do read, I read a lot of fiction more than anything, because fiction allows me the space to continue dreaming and thinking about what is possible versus what I've done and how to improve just in the here and now.

Brett Linkletter: I like that.

Abhinav Kapur: Fiction gives me the mental clarity to just be like, this is an imagined world and these are the ways in which characters and people operate and how would I think about building the world and building the company that I hope to see in the future? Right now, the art of company building is turning fiction into nonfiction.

Brett Linkletter: Yes.

Abhinav Kapur: crosstalk something that is potentially possible or could be and make it reality. And so I just focused on fiction.

Brett Linkletter: That was some poetic shit right there man, that was good.

Abhinav Kapur: That's the first time I've ever said it, so I'm going to use that on my speaker series from now on.

Brett Linkletter: No way, that is so juicy, that might have to be the title of the podcast. Damn that was good. Save that, it's recorded, so you can come back and watch it later.

Abhinav Kapur: We're good, yeah.

Brett Linkletter: Yeah, that was really, really, really damn good, seriously.

Abhinav Kapur: Thank you. Yeah, and then I spend time with my family too, you can see the background, I've got kids.

Brett Linkletter: Totally.

Abhinav Kapur: My wife just ran for City Council here in Queens where we are.

Brett Linkletter: Nice.

Abhinav Kapur: So we're both sort of in the trenches in our own respective, chosen fields, and we've got two young kids and just spending time, it's easy to lose yourself in all the stuff we're doing, especially during work from home, pandemic life. It's easy to get caught up in the day to day, in the hustle and bustle, but I just try to take time, I don't do it well, I don't do it often enough, but take time to reflect and give thanks and just be present with my family and so those are the things that help me.

Brett Linkletter: Do you meditate a lot?

Abhinav Kapur: So I downloaded the Calm app during COVID, and I don't do the daily meditations, what I do which helps me a lot is I do the sleep meditations.

Brett Linkletter: Interesting.

Abhinav Kapur: And so now at least every two to three nights a week there are a couple of different ones about drifting off into deep sleep, drifting off with gratitude, how to center yourself for restful sleep, and literally the one I listened to last night, I couldn't sleep last night and I was like, screw it, I'm just going to turn it on, and it was like 1: 30 in the morning and the person who's doing the sleep meditation is like, " Your day is done, there is nothing else you need to do today. You can't influence any projects, you can't influence anyone else right now, there is no point in thinking about all the things that you could've done but didn't. All you need to do is give your brain and body rest. So close your eyes, feel your body touching the mattress, look inward into yourself." One of the things they always say is, "Think about a point of gratitude in your day and give thanks because it didn't have to be that way, so give thanks that it actually happened," and I thought about when I came home last night, my kids being excited and hugging me. And it just calms you down and it's just like, that's the type of stuff that helps me because I've always been a bad sleeper and a night owl, but that's been crosstalk, so.

Brett Linkletter: Got it. That's cool, man, I love that. I mean, I don't do meditation before I go to sleep, but I do it actually usually when I wake up and start my day.

Abhinav Kapur: Nice.

Brett Linkletter: And it just kind of gets me right, I like to read in the morning too, I usually read for 30 minutes or a meditation, one or the other. But I feel like so many people, they wake up and they just go, and it's like holy shit, your brain just woke up.

Abhinav Kapur: crosstalk we've got our phones with us, we're always on, we're always on as people.

Brett Linkletter: Right?

Abhinav Kapur: And the most valuable work that I do is the ability to just, I have a block on my calendar on Thursdays where it's like 10:00 to 5: 00 PM focused work, and I try not to do any calls, I try to just carve that time out for myself so that I can, A, catch up on stuff that I missed earlier in the week and then, B, think about what are the big strategic things I need to do for the week ahead? What are the things crosstalk-

Brett Linkletter: Totally.

Abhinav Kapur: Or what are the things I need to focus on to be the best CEO, be the best team member, be the best partner to our restaurants. Be the best spouse, be the best friend, be the best parent, just having the mental space to sit back and do that is super valuable, so.

Brett Linkletter: Totally, man, and I love that you have that balanced by the way, you mentioned obviously being a good parent too and that's awesome.

Abhinav Kapur: It's easier said than done, so.

Brett Linkletter: Especially in the restaurant business man, you see these parents that come home every night at 11:00, 12:00, and so they don't see their kids and then they go back the next day, then they work weekends too, it's like, fuck.

Abhinav Kapur: It's hard, yeah, it's hard. crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: You mentioned that you like fictional books, I read quite a bit but usually about business or sales or marketing. I've just started reading some restaurant book so I'm actually pretty excited to dive into that. But I'm not a big fictional reader, I'm kind of curious, any recommendations for me that I should check out?

Abhinav Kapur: The one that I gave this to a junior person our team that joined for the holidays, so a holiday present, the biggest one, one of my favorites that I read every three years is a book called The Dispossessed by Ursula K. Le Guin, it's a science fiction book.

Brett Linkletter: Interesting.

Abhinav Kapur: I read it every three years, every two to three years like clockwork, because it is one of those books that I guess it makes you realize that everybody is going through their own personal struggle, but, one, you don't have to struggle alone, and, two, there is something, and this is going to get a little religious or transcendental, but there is something cosmic or special inside each of us and if you just have the right people around you, you can unlock what that is. And I think that's the hardest thing, right? Again, turning fiction into nonfiction with company building, we all aspire to be a certain way, we all aspire to do certain things, and, again, there's so many factors in society that need to come into play. I was born in Dubai, I got lucky that my parents were granted a green card to come here in 1988, '89, and I grew up in a warm, loving, nuclear family and then all my mom's side came over. That shit is lucky, I didn't control any of that, and that just happened to me. And all of that goes into making me the person I am and putting me in this position to even be on this podcast building the company I'm building, talking about the things that we're talking about. I didn't have to marry the person I married, but she just happened to be the daughter of restaurant owners that inspired me to start a company and serving restaurants.

Brett Linkletter: Totally. By the way, love Dubai, I was just there last month. Badass city.

Abhinav Kapur: I've only been back once since we moved. And now crosstalk four years ago, I know, I know.

Brett Linkletter: Dude, you've got to go back. It's a cool freaking place, it's really amazing.

Abhinav Kapur: We were there with our older son who was a year and a half old at the time, so it's not like we did anything crazy. It was more just looking around, going to different restaurants.

Brett Linkletter: It's an awesome city man, I love that place, so cool.

Abhinav Kapur: It is. But anyway, The Dispossessed by Ursula K. Le Guin, I recommend that to everybody, I think it's crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: I will definitely check that out. Man, this has been an incredible podcast, man, really, thanks for your time. This is so cool.

Abhinav Kapur: Thank you for having me.

Brett Linkletter: Totally, man, it's great to connect and it sounds like there's a lot of things that we should be doing together. Damn.

Abhinav Kapur: And it's funny, normally people have a Zoom call to catch up, and our Zoom call to catch up just happened to be a podcast which is going to get widely distributed.

Brett Linkletter: Totally.

Abhinav Kapur: But, yeah, so.

Brett Linkletter: People are going to love this though, I can already tell.

Abhinav Kapur: I hope so, I hope so.

Brett Linkletter: So, people who are just learning about you for the first time, they're hearing about your business for the first time and you in general, how can they connect with you online?

Abhinav Kapur: You can just email us, Abhinav, A- B- H- I- N- A- V, at B- I- K- K- Y, bikky.com, that's the best way to email me. You can email hello @ bikky. com, help @ bikky. com, support @ bikky. com. The important thing is that it's B- I- K- K- Y dot com and then either my name or any of the other things that I mentioned.

Brett Linkletter: Perfect.

Abhinav Kapur: That is the best way. I don't give out social handles, because I'm just like, I don't know how to use social media properly. And so I end up endlessly scrolling and consuming rather than using the platforms appropriately, crosstalk.

Brett Linkletter: It's all good, it's all good, man. Hey, you know what, again, thank you so much for your time today, Abhinav, that was so awesome. I'll be sure to put your guys' website below in this podcast episode, so if anybody wants to check it out, you can just click right there. I'll put your email as well for reference if you'd like.

Abhinav Kapur: Yes, yeah, please put my work email, that's fine. Totally fine.

Brett Linkletter: Absolutely. Cool, man, well, hey, again, I will be in touch with you very soon and I think there's a lot of amazing things we should be doing.

Abhinav Kapur: Yeah, sounds good, man.

Brett Linkletter: Thanks for your time today, and we'll chat real soon.

Abhinav Kapur: Of course. Thank you. Take care. Bye.

Brett Linkletter: Have a good one. All righty, see you. Bye.

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